“Guys, I’m just telling you right now, that’s how you do it. You go so young they don’t know any better than to go with you. That’s it.”
This “advice” was part of a sermon that Southern Baptist pastor Mark Hartman delivered to his 7,000 member congregation at Sugar Creek Baptist Church in the Houston area.
You can see the clip on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1UD9TXPu3Q/
Religion reporter Eric Killelea caught wind of Hartman’s sermon, and of the controversy it was generating, and he asked me what I thought.
I didn’t mince words. But before you read further to see what I said, I hope you’ll listen to the clip and drop a comment telling me what you think.
When I heard the clip from Hartman’s sermon, my first thought was how much it reminded me of some of the clips we’ve seen of SBC pastor Josh Howerton’s misogynistic sermons. Remember? He was the pastor who gave this “advice” to women:
“When you get to his wedding night… stand where he tells you to stand, wear what he tells you to wear, and do what he tells you to do.”
Ugh.
But of course, while Howerton has gotten a lot of attention, the reality is that these sorts of misogynistic messages have been around for a long time in Baptistland. They’re baked into the culture and preached from the pulpit. (E.g., Here’s where Rick Pidcock wrote about an earlier misogynistic sermon from former SBC president Steve Gaines.)
I told Eric that I viewed Hartman’s “advice” as “a rape-culturey message that effectively serves to groom” the congregation toward thinking this kind of thing is good, and even biblical. When preached from the pulpit, a sermon like this “twists faith into a weapon for misogyny, domination, and abuse.”
I also talked about how Hartman’s message was consistent with “purity culture” teachings which are so prevalent in Baptistland and which push teens to marry young so as to not to be “impure” and “fall into sin.”
“This misogynistic theology has consequences,” I said, “and those consequences can be extremely destructive in the lives of real people.”
And if you think I’m overstating things, consider this woman’s response, posted on X:
“I am a life destroyed… You grow up so unaware to it all and it follows you into adulthood. I worked for the SBC for 10 years. Faced misogyny daily… The whole 10 years was abusive in how I was treated as a woman. Waking up is hard.”
As the controversy over Hartman’s sermon grew, with thousands of people commenting on the video clip, pastor Hartman responded to the criticism by saying it was “a dumb joke” and “a poor attempt at humor.”
And once again, the familiar patterns of Baptistland were on display. As I told Eric, in explaining how Baptist pastors frequently respond to criticism:
"The first step is what you see here: They say, 'It was just a joke.' The second step is they attack those who criticize as being 'just too sensitive.' Then they rally around the pastor. That's the pattern. But what almost never happens is any accountability.”
The church, too, responded to the criticism, saying that the clip was “shared without context of the entire message” and that “it was a joke meant to relate to the congregation in the context of the overall message.”
I don’t think the church’s statement made things any better. As I told Eric:
“The church’s statement only makes things worse. ‘A joke meant to relate to the congregation”… that’s exactly the problem: It sends a terrible message to the congregation. And linking it back to the whole message about ‘the God who chooses you.’ That makes their God into a predatory and abusive God.”
In any event, even if it were just “a joke,” it was a lousy one. At best, it was incredibly tone-deaf, and when preached with Bible in hand to 7,000 people, it’s the kind of “joke” that does damage and that, really, cannot responsibly be said.
But far too many Southern Baptists seem oblivious to the impact of the misogynistic messages their pastors preach from the pulpit… and that’s a real problem. As I told Eric:
“While other people outside the Southern Baptist arena are often appalled at the things Southern Baptist preachers say from the pulpit, the reality is that within the SBC, this kind of pulpiteered misogyny is normalized.”
Here’s the whole of religion reporter Eric Killelea’s article. I hope you’ll read it… and drop a comment to let me know what you think.
If you want to read more about the culture of Baptistland, check out my book, Baptistland: A Memoir of Abuse, Betrayal, and Transformation.
From Eric Killea’s article —
“I convinced her to marry me when she was so young she didn't know any better," Hartman told the still-chuckling crowd. "And see guys, this is how you do it. I'm just giving you some advice here. This is how you do it." He went on to describe how God chose His people, referencing Ephesians 1:4. "Why did He choose you? It is based upon only one thing: It brought pleasure to His heart, and it was according to His will."
Christa is right: — “It sends a terrible message to the congregation. And linking it back to the whole message about 'the God who chooses you.' That makes their God into a predatory and abusive God."
Hartmann again:
“I would never want someone to abuse a woman, much less a child. If knew me, I'm the guy who is always defending women. I'm the guy who is always trying to stand up for women. For me to be accused of pedophilia, golly, I can't hardly believe my eyes. That is just not who I am, and of course not what I would say. Our church is full of young adults and families. It's full of them because they trust me. To harm somebody else is not just who I am. We would never want to be associated with such a thing as perhaps other churches have."
Here’s my analysis.
Hartmann teaches men how to trap women into marriage. He teaches young women to not be on guard against predators who want to trap them into marriage. He is an enabler of predatory men.
Hartmann is prideful: he brags about how he defends both women and young people. He is resistant to admonishment. When admonished, he FIGHTS BACK with words. He lies. He resists the truth. He suppresses the truth in unrighteousness (Romans 1:8).
https://cryingoutforjustice.blog/2015/02/01/they-suppress-the-truth-in-unrighteousness/
(I have deleted my FB account but was able to see the clip.) I am an atheist and disapprove of all organized religion. The whole marry young and make lots of little Christian soldiers is disgusting. However, in context, that wongheaded pastor WAS making a joke, as far as I can tell. The whole thing is creepy, no doubt. I'm just thinking that pouncing on that statement, that clip, is perhaps not the best example of the misogynistic, pedophilia-supporting preaching that goes on. We need the best - (hmm, I started to say 'ammunition'
but let's not go there!) - means possible of making our points. Thank you for your post. I wan't aware of this particular chucklehead and the issues around him. The more we know, the better we go. Keep spreading the word! Best wishes!